Practical Advice How can you tell if you're becoming a problem drinker?
- Thread starter Lisa the Goatgirl
- Start date
I know i didn't respond to this at first. I think because it's just a hard thought to process. The thing that scares me is how much sense it makes. I've spent months asking people "This doesn't make me an alcoholic, right?" All because i knew i was starting to act like one. And i'd noticed the answers had become a lot more hesitant, and my tone when asking had become more and more pleading. I didn't want to think it had happened, but maybe it has. Maybe i have become an alcoholic, i just realised it mercifully quickly.
@Lisa the Goatgirl I never ever want to think about it, but I have been a little bit while reading your thread. 'It' being my little brother hitting rock bottom many times, how he was convinced to stop due to alcohol ruining his relationships, his health, and how going to rehab did not work. He went from being a tall and extraordinarily strong and creative person with several seemingly disparate talents, to a weak and bitter wreck. Then he died. I know deeply about this because I was closer to him than anyone next to his wife. I grew with him and we were best friends unitl things got too fraught. It too years of effort on our part to try to get him away from the booze. We failed.
So here is this opportunity and chance now while you're aware of what's going on, as well as being young and healthy.
These kinds of chances don't hold still, as annoyingly dramatic as it feels, they're often a fork in the road moment.
You're a wonderful person, we all see it, and very much appreciate you being here.
So here is this opportunity and chance now while you're aware of what's going on, as well as being young and healthy.
These kinds of chances don't hold still, as annoyingly dramatic as it feels, they're often a fork in the road moment.
You're a wonderful person, we all see it, and very much appreciate you being here.
I wanted to comment on the "rock bottom" thought, because I feel like it sometimes creates a misconception, despite being true from a psychological understanding of addiction. The truth is that, humans resist change. That goes double for changing one's own behavior, and quadruple for changing a behavior that is addictive, because that is a vicious spiral feeding upon itself. The truth in the idea of we have to hit "rock bottom" before we can recover is true in the sense that in general, humans resist change until the pain of continuing the status quo exceeds the significant perceived pain of adopting better strategies.
However, I would argue that "rock bottom," is often misconstrued as suggesting that alcoholics/addicts must encounter serious losses of health, legal freedom, finances, and/or relationships before they can get better. I have seen this used in direct conversations with others of my kind who resist the idea that they are one of us on the grounds that they are not waking up face-down in a gutter, so how could they possibly be one of them. Heck, I used this notion myself, until I realized that I was headed in that direction even if that's not where I am now.
Similarly, addicts get painted with a broad brush as inherently criminal, violent, and hopeless, which leads to cruel policy positions that do nothing to help and only punish someone for having a problem, thereby stigmatizing the condition and further inhibiting people from getting help when they would otherwise want it, but wish to avoid legal exposure.
I have heard a story (probably not strictly factual) about an early member of a 12 step group who had achieved long term sobriety, but would not help someone else if they still had a watch, because that would mean they hadn't lost everything. The reasoning goes that if you haven't been brought to absolute ruin by the disease, then you would not yet be willing to put forth a 100% effort into your recovery. I stand as a counterexample, and the fun thing about absolutist claims is that a single counterexample disproves it.
In reality, "rock bottom" is wherever you stop digging! There is a saying, I think from Rumi, that goes along the line of, "When you find out you are traveling in the wrong direction, turn around!" Easier said than done, but makes perfect sense from a strictly logical perspective. Another saying in the recovery community, by which I mean all methodologies, including professional treatment and peer support of any variety, is that addiction is like an elevator that only goes down, but you can get off at any floor.
Side comment: In certain 12 step meetings I have heard a different elevator metaphor that says since the elevator only goes down, to get back up you must take the (presumably 12) steps!
Not only is this untrue from direct observation, but the founder of AA actually said that the steps "are suggestions only," and elsewhere mentions that AA does not have a monopoly on recovery methods. So, I would reinterpret that as saying you need to take some action, of course, but there are many paths to the same mountaintop.
I hope that this doesn't come off as castigating, because I mean it in the opposite sense. I know I wrote a ton of off-topic blah-blah-blah, and that is because it's a bit of a raw nerve for me and I want addicts and the people who love them to know that the data on the subject directly contradicts the stereotype.
However, I would argue that "rock bottom," is often misconstrued as suggesting that alcoholics/addicts must encounter serious losses of health, legal freedom, finances, and/or relationships before they can get better. I have seen this used in direct conversations with others of my kind who resist the idea that they are one of us on the grounds that they are not waking up face-down in a gutter, so how could they possibly be one of them. Heck, I used this notion myself, until I realized that I was headed in that direction even if that's not where I am now.
Similarly, addicts get painted with a broad brush as inherently criminal, violent, and hopeless, which leads to cruel policy positions that do nothing to help and only punish someone for having a problem, thereby stigmatizing the condition and further inhibiting people from getting help when they would otherwise want it, but wish to avoid legal exposure.
I have heard a story (probably not strictly factual) about an early member of a 12 step group who had achieved long term sobriety, but would not help someone else if they still had a watch, because that would mean they hadn't lost everything. The reasoning goes that if you haven't been brought to absolute ruin by the disease, then you would not yet be willing to put forth a 100% effort into your recovery. I stand as a counterexample, and the fun thing about absolutist claims is that a single counterexample disproves it.
In reality, "rock bottom" is wherever you stop digging! There is a saying, I think from Rumi, that goes along the line of, "When you find out you are traveling in the wrong direction, turn around!" Easier said than done, but makes perfect sense from a strictly logical perspective. Another saying in the recovery community, by which I mean all methodologies, including professional treatment and peer support of any variety, is that addiction is like an elevator that only goes down, but you can get off at any floor.
Side comment: In certain 12 step meetings I have heard a different elevator metaphor that says since the elevator only goes down, to get back up you must take the (presumably 12) steps!
Not only is this untrue from direct observation, but the founder of AA actually said that the steps "are suggestions only," and elsewhere mentions that AA does not have a monopoly on recovery methods. So, I would reinterpret that as saying you need to take some action, of course, but there are many paths to the same mountaintop.
I hope that this doesn't come off as castigating, because I mean it in the opposite sense. I know I wrote a ton of off-topic blah-blah-blah, and that is because it's a bit of a raw nerve for me and I want addicts and the people who love them to know that the data on the subject directly contradicts the stereotype.
I think @may71's, @seabird's and @LumberJack's words have convinced me to follow your advice @Shinzon1. (In particular, thank you for your courage Seabird, i know that must have been extremely difficult to talk about. 
) I talked with E, and she's coming over tomorrow. Which is good because i think her presence will help me cope. And it's doubly good because i've asked her to take my booze when she goes, and find a good home for it. I could tell she wanted to ask why, but she's cool enough to interpret i'm not ready to explain, i just need it gone. So i only have to hang on for tonight and tomorrow. She usually leaves first thing in the morning, so they'll go early the day after tomorrow.
I was in a relationship with an alcoholic (i guess now i have to say "another alcoholic"). I sat with him during his binges. I truly loved him, and still do, and that didn't change during those moments, but i could see how hard and scary they were for him. It wasn't something he wanted to do, he just couldn't stop himself. And i've seen my brother in law's dad die to his alcoholism. He'd been sober for something like 15 years, then threw it all, and his life, away, and drank himself to death. It beat him eventually. I saw what that did to his family. I heard the way my dad talked about it.
I can't let myself go there. I have a chance to stop this now, while that's still an option, and i need to take that seriously. I can tell from how hard it already feels that's the case. I hate that i'm doing this, but i'm doing it. The alcohol leaves my house asap.
) I talked with E, and she's coming over tomorrow. Which is good because i think her presence will help me cope. And it's doubly good because i've asked her to take my booze when she goes, and find a good home for it. I could tell she wanted to ask why, but she's cool enough to interpret i'm not ready to explain, i just need it gone. So i only have to hang on for tonight and tomorrow. She usually leaves first thing in the morning, so they'll go early the day after tomorrow.I was in a relationship with an alcoholic (i guess now i have to say "another alcoholic"). I sat with him during his binges. I truly loved him, and still do, and that didn't change during those moments, but i could see how hard and scary they were for him. It wasn't something he wanted to do, he just couldn't stop himself. And i've seen my brother in law's dad die to his alcoholism. He'd been sober for something like 15 years, then threw it all, and his life, away, and drank himself to death. It beat him eventually. I saw what that did to his family. I heard the way my dad talked about it.
I can't let myself go there. I have a chance to stop this now, while that's still an option, and i need to take that seriously. I can tell from how hard it already feels that's the case. I hate that i'm doing this, but i'm doing it. The alcohol leaves my house asap.
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It's funny, but some bit of me is really angry at myself for taking this seriously and choosing to do the responsible thing. It's screaming at me right now that i'm being melodramatic, i never should have started this thread, that i've somehow pantomimed alcoholism so well i tricked you all into buying it, so i could feel special and cared about.
As Lumberjack astutely observed, it's telling me "you never woke up in a gutter, you don't even know what rock bottom truly is, so stop making something out of nothing. Literally nothing has happened, this has cost you nothing. You should at least resume drinking until you're in really deep, to justify calling yourself an alcoholic, and how dare you think you're entitled to calling yourself one now."
I'm guessing if i pulled off the mask of indignance it's putting on, i'd just find the bit of me that simply wants to find any excuse to go back to drinking.
As Lumberjack astutely observed, it's telling me "you never woke up in a gutter, you don't even know what rock bottom truly is, so stop making something out of nothing. Literally nothing has happened, this has cost you nothing. You should at least resume drinking until you're in really deep, to justify calling yourself an alcoholic, and how dare you think you're entitled to calling yourself one now."
I'm guessing if i pulled off the mask of indignance it's putting on, i'd just find the bit of me that simply wants to find any excuse to go back to drinking.
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I'm not doing great, i'll be honest. My OCD is worse, i feel majorly stressed, and i'm insanely irritable. My dad just did the thing where he wanders into the bathroom seconds before i was about to, which set off a chain of events that made the start to my day a pain in the arse. It was genuinely annoying, but the anger i felt was really disproportionate.
I wanted to throttle him. Instead i settled for angrily slamming things shut and kicking things open, despite knowing he was trying to go back to sleep. I feel stupid getting that heated over it, and he probably feels a bit hurt having overheard that outburst, but i feel that if he knew the full context, he'd get it wasn't about his behaviour, it's just because i really want a drink. I just can't explain to him what's going on with me, because he's got enough on his plate dealing with grandad and my uncle.
Strange silver lining i guess: The fact i feel like absolute shit confirms to me that i am in fact an alcoholic, so i'm doing the right thing by quitting.
I wanted to throttle him. Instead i settled for angrily slamming things shut and kicking things open, despite knowing he was trying to go back to sleep. I feel stupid getting that heated over it, and he probably feels a bit hurt having overheard that outburst, but i feel that if he knew the full context, he'd get it wasn't about his behaviour, it's just because i really want a drink. I just can't explain to him what's going on with me, because he's got enough on his plate dealing with grandad and my uncle.
Strange silver lining i guess: The fact i feel like absolute shit confirms to me that i am in fact an alcoholic, so i'm doing the right thing by quitting.
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Yes, that's true.
I'm glad you both apologized and explained.
It's really better for him to know. However much of a burden you imagine it to be for him to know, it would be far worse for him not to know.
I don't understand what the incident was. You're welcome to explain, but it's also ok if you don't want to.
I'm glad you both apologized and explained.
It's really better for him to know. However much of a burden you imagine it to be for him to know, it would be far worse for him not to know.
I don't understand what the incident was. You're welcome to explain, but it's also ok if you don't want to.
Oh, it's cos we only have the one bathroom. Having OCD makes using it right after someone else very not fun. And he has this uncanny nack of going into the bathroom literally seconds before i was going to. He does it with a bizarre level of frequency, it's like his superpower. It's mildly annoying on an average day, but this morning my irritability turned it into an unforgivable sin against man and god.
I still haven't had anything to drink, but man, some days are still way harder than others. I never realised before just how many depictions of heavy drinking there are on tv. It's everywhere. And every single time, something in my brain goes "Looks like a good time. Yknow, you could be having the same fun if you'd stop being such a square."
It's like i'm annoyed i didn't really get to experience the "fun" of problem drinking. I just jumped almost immediately into recovery, because A just had to go and be an annoyingly good friend, to catch it before it got really bad.
Life doesn't help either. My granddad's not doing great, apparently he has pneumonia now. The phrase "end of life care" is getting thrown around. And once again, i feel like i'm freaking people out with how i'm processing it, because i'm not experiencing all this the same way they are. I mean, how could i, after mum? I know some part of me is broken when it comes to people i love dying, but i'd appreciate if people didn't make me feel like such a mutant because of it. I do care, i just don't go through the same process as everyone else now, i can't after what happened. (Sorry, got sidetracked, but this one just bothers me. Maybe i need to make a thread about it.)
Anyway, i get set off by the most random things too. A friend sent a screenshot today of a google search result with a strangely named cocktail, so i got curious and checked the details. Cue me watching a video of a guy mixing the drink. It didn't sound like my kind of thing, and the reviews on the site gave it like 1.8 stars out of 5, so it sounds awful. But even so, i was staring at that thing like Spongebob with that pitcher of water.
It's like i'm annoyed i didn't really get to experience the "fun" of problem drinking. I just jumped almost immediately into recovery, because A just had to go and be an annoyingly good friend, to catch it before it got really bad.
Life doesn't help either. My granddad's not doing great, apparently he has pneumonia now. The phrase "end of life care" is getting thrown around. And once again, i feel like i'm freaking people out with how i'm processing it, because i'm not experiencing all this the same way they are. I mean, how could i, after mum? I know some part of me is broken when it comes to people i love dying, but i'd appreciate if people didn't make me feel like such a mutant because of it. I do care, i just don't go through the same process as everyone else now, i can't after what happened. (Sorry, got sidetracked, but this one just bothers me. Maybe i need to make a thread about it.)
Anyway, i get set off by the most random things too. A friend sent a screenshot today of a google search result with a strangely named cocktail, so i got curious and checked the details. Cue me watching a video of a guy mixing the drink. It didn't sound like my kind of thing, and the reviews on the site gave it like 1.8 stars out of 5, so it sounds awful. But even so, i was staring at that thing like Spongebob with that pitcher of water.
@Lisa the Goatgirl. Good for you, glad to hear it. I think this thread is about drinking etc. I haven't read it just your post today...so I'll take it as such..... I haven't had a drink in 50 years, it was never my thing but a particular drug was a favorite for awhile in part of that decade. I went to a lot of 12 step meetings way back then. It worked for me when I needed it although I know many people who find there own paths with not using again. WHATEVER works
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@Lisa the Goatgirl. Good for you, glad to hear it. I think this thread is about drinking etc. I haven't read it just your post today...so I'll take it as such..... I haven't had a drink in 50 years, it was never my thing but a particular drug was a favorite for awhile in part of that decade. I went to a lot of 12 step meetings way back then. It worked for me when I needed it although I know many people who find there own paths with not using again. WHATEVER works
@Lisa the Goatgirl. Good for you, glad to hear it. I think this thread is about drinking etc. I haven't read it just your post today...so I'll take it as such..... I haven't had a drink in 50 years, it was never my thing but a particular drug was a favorite for awhile in part of that decade. I went to a lot of 12 step meetings way back then. It worked for me when I needed it although I know many people who find there own paths with not using again. WHATEVER works
Yeah, you've got the basic gist. To give you the cliffnotes, i used to have a pretty healthy relationship with alcohol, but at one point a few months back, it just started getting worse, until i was getting pretty majorly drunk more and more often, and it even started getting in the way of the rest of my life.
But my best friend picked up on it pretty fast, and questioned me on it. Then i made this thread about 2 months ago and the people here convinced me to get rid of my booze and go sober. Now i'm using it as a venting space when stuff comes up from trying to stay sober.