Practical Advice How can you tell if you're becoming a problem drinker?

Obviously, potential trigger warning for discussion of alcoholism and maybe alcoholic thoughts patterns.
Also, yeah, this is another long post, but i have to make my full case to get meaningful answers here.

I'm dealing with a hangover today. First one i've had in years, and it's nasty. And i ended up missing my therapy session today because of it, which is dumb of me. I shouldn't have had that much to drink last night. As i say, i don't normally get hangovers, so it'd been long enough i hadn't even thought to account for the possibility. Anyway, i said something in the group chat about being hungover, and then i got A messaging me privately to check in, cos i admit it probably does sound like i'm developing a drinking problem, or something bad is going on in my life. I was saying the other night how i was insanely drunk, and now today i'm complaining of a hangover, which implies at least one other night of heavy drinking took place. It probably does read a bit like one of those "that was when i should have known my friend had a problem" stories. For reference, it has just been the two recently, once on Friday and again last night.

I assured him that i'm ok really, and that i don't think i'm becoming an alcoholic, and i meant it, i don't feel like i am. But i have this niggling anxiety in the back of my head, cos how many alcoholics actually know they have a problem? I've seen alcoholism in action, and it's not fun, so i feel like i should take the risk seriously. Should i not confront this and get ahead of it now if that's where it's going? But at the same time, i don't want to go back to avoiding booze entirely if i can be healthy about it, cos i like the odd tipple. It's the one vice i still allow myself. So i suppose i wanted to get some of the general consensus. I'm gonna explain my thought process, and then see what everyone has to say, if it checks out, yknow?

See, i see it as a phase i'm going through, where alcohol and i have a complicated changing relationship. It used to be that it never really changed anything for me. I felt like shit when i was sober, and when i was drunk, i still felt like shit, just in more ways, and it was all made much more raw by the lack of inhibition. So a drink or two was nice enough, but getting drunk was totally pointless. But now, i'm a genuinely happy person, who's truly content with being here, i can just forget that at times, underneath all the silly messy things life throws at us, that don't really matter. So when i drink now, i feel more at ease, more present in the current moment, more earnest, and more joyous. It gives me the means to temporarily remove the last hurdles standing between me and this truly wonderful inner core i now have inside of me.

And it doesn't feel at all to me like it was when i was addicted to weed. Back then, it was just a way to make my brain be quiet, to numb myself to enough to make life bearable. Which seems like it's usually the core of most addictions. Whereas now, when i drink, it's not with this mentality of "this is the only way i can ever feel this good, i want to be like this all the time." It's more like i can see some kind of wisdom in the person i am when i'm drunk, and i'm trying to learn from her how to be more like her in my day-to-day sober life, which i think is possible. I am actually exploring ways to do that too, like i'm thinking about trying meditation again, and i'm listening to people speak about the various roads to enlightenment and zen.

So for me, i get that i've been overdoing it lately, and i'm gonna try to ease off after today's rather embarrassing slipup, but i still don't see it as a drinking problem. In my eyes, it's more just an experimental phase where i try to form a new relationship with this more primal, unfiltered version of me i know i can be every day, without any chemical assistance. Drinking just gives me a temporary window into her world, where i can glean more insight on this person i'm trying to be. It's kind of reminiscent of the way some people talk about experimenting with LSD to find some distant, happy part of themselves, but instead i've done most of the work sober, and now the bridge between me and my best self is so short, i only need alcohol to get there right now. And i honestly don't think i'd ever want the window to her world to be permanent, cos being drunk sometimes is fun, but i don't think i'd want that all the time.

But idk, what do you guys think? Does this just sound like someone making excuses for why their drinking isn't a problem, even as it gets worse and worse? Or does what i'm saying actually make sense as a justification for why i can keep it under control? Is there some way for me to better establish whether i really am just experimenting, or if something darker is starting to get into me? In particular, if anyone who sees this has had their own issues with alcohol, or knows someone who became an alcoholic in front of them, if you could suggest warning signs for me to watch out for, that'd be really helpful.
Thanks for taking the time to read this, and double thanks to anyone willing to respond with advice and insight.

I've heard that drinking with the intention of getting drunk is considered a sign of alcoholism. Also drinking outside of social settings.

From some perspectives, the level of drinking that you're doing now wouldn't be considered serious, and may be fairly common. On the other hand, pretty much everyone who becomes a full-blown, multi-day bender alcoholic goes down more-or-less the same path you're on now, and alcoholism is a truly horrible addiction.

You could research warning signs online I suppose. If you want to be certain not to be come an alcoholic, don't drink. If you're comfortable with a significant amount of risk, you could continue on your current path.

Meditating sounds like a good idea.

Is there anyone who is suggesting alcohol as a tool of self-exploration or path to enlightenment? If so, I'm skeptical.

As someone who is diagnosed with substance use disorder (in remission), I can relate my own experience and what my therapist told me about diagnosis.

My therapist gave me a binary test with one criterion. Nonalcoholic drinkers slow down when they start to feel the effects of alcohol. They experience it as a sick feeling, which tells them to put on the brakes. Similar to the way that people begin to feel full after eating enough, providing their eating is not disordered.

By contrast, alcoholics experience euphoria when drinking heavily, and that causes us to accelerate our consumption, and usually well past the point of diminishing returns.

My experience was that, under the influence, I would say that if 2 beers made me feel better, then 20 drinks would get me to pure ecstasy. That never happened, but I had to repeat the same experiment many times before I noticed it was the same result every single time I did it.

I think I started out as a “normal” drinker, and I would stop after two beers or one cocktail. Over time, I became addicted, first with binge drinking, and later the binges became more frequent until they were 4 times in a day, no exaggeration. If I went 6 hours without alcohol, then I would start withdrawal.

It sounds like you’re not addicted yet, but you might be on a path to problematic drinking if you continue in your current patter

Thanks for contributing Jacky. I know it was probably difficult to do, but your insight from experience is really valuable.

See, yeah, i think in a way, this has been a justification for a long time of why i was never even approaching alcoholism. I hated even getting close to that sick-inducing, head-spinning state of drunkenness. I always knew my limit, and stopped either at, or later on well before it. But i've noticed the amount of drunkenness i want to experience has increased quite a lot. And when i am really drunk, i like the experience of it was more than i used to. I do know that there is a limit though, even when i'm chasing that buzz. It all could potentially just be because i can get a lot more drunk before i get the negative consequences than i used to, but it still concerns me. I suppose i'd know if i got to the point of feeling really sick, but it hasn't happened yet.

That being said, i feel like today i've very much been experiencing the negative effects, and it does feel like it's really dissuaded me from drinking. It just does not feel worth it for the experience i had last night. But i wonder if i'll still feel that way tomorrow, or in another three days, or a week from now. I'm not sure if i just don't want to drink right now because i currently feel awful from it, or if that thought process will stick and discourage me from drinking that much again, or as frequently as i have been lately, for a long time.

It sounds like either way though, you and @may71 are both saying i should really look at trying to curb the drinking before it becomes a habit. As i say, i'm currently pretty inclined to agree with you.

Yeah, it feels like it could actually be a healthy alternative to drinking to be present in the moment and less anxious. That and practicing mindfulness. Just need to get over the executive dysfunction and the fear it'll do as little for me as it did the first time around, when my mind was too chaotic to ever be still. I'll never know until i try.

Oh, no, nobody's been suggesting this to me as an idea. It's more like i'd get drunk, realise i wasn't worrying about things that make my sober life way harder, or do things that achieved more healing than months of sober work, and thought to myself "hang on, i've got something figured out in this state." Some people get angry when they're drunk, or sad, or really chummy. I get free from the shackles my mind normally creates to hold me back.

It's hard to describe the liberation of living with constant, paralysing OCD, then getting drunk and just saying "fuck it" to the obsessive thoughts. To suddenly genuinely not care. Or to carry around a weight needlessly for months, then unburden it all with a single drunken message, literally fixing it overnight.

I'm wading in here as a person that has a drink less than once a year, so I'm not even sure why I'm replying, but sod it, here we go...

I hear what you're saying about liberation - not quite for the same reasons, but I completely get it. However, if you boil down what you're saying here, it says "when I drink, my problems go away". I know that's a huge over simplification so don't come at me, but I also know you're eloquent, very smart and excellent at arguing a point. And you're arguing for the benefits of alcohol to you in a very persuasive way, that makes your alcohol use seem very reasonable.

You're using alcohol to feel good and that's fine. The majority of people who drink don't do it because they are connoisseurs. But you're also telling yourself that it's healing and therapeutic... and that sounds like dangerous rhetoric to me. Especially if you end up convincing yourself, with this rhetoric, that you are a "better you" while drunk. If you believe that's true, then yes, it's a problem.

I know I'm ignoring some nuance and I'm probably frustrating you with that, and I'm completely sure you have an extremely well reasoned argument for why those nuances are what makes alcohol a good thing for you, where it might be a bad thing for someone else. Those arguments could easily be valid and true. But they could also be a super smart person rationalising the use of alcohol. It might be easier to be someone you like when you're drunk, but since you can't stay drunk, that just seems akin to maladaptive daydreaming to me. I really like myself in a world inside my head where I'm confident and beautiful and funny and socially competent. But I can't live there as that person and you can't live as drunk Lisa.

My feeling is that if you use alcohol to be who you want to be, then you're screwing sober Lisa out of growth and development and letting drunk Lisa steal her opportunity to be happy. Sober Lisa is all kinds of awesome, as well as being smart and strong and resilient. Don't let drunk Lisa stomp on her by putting drunk Lisa on a pedestal in your head.

I didn't really know what I thought about this when I started typing. My instinct when I read the title and opening was "if you have to ask, then you have a problem" then I got sucked in by your reasoning. I actually don't think you have a problem right now but I do think the rationale you are giving here is going to turn into a problem if you continue.

There are many different styles of meditation, so if one doesn't work, there might be another that does.

I guess that means that you're self-medicating for OCD. It may be an effective medication, but there are a couple of potential problems:

1 People will commonly use drugs and alcohol to self-medicate for depression, insomnia, and other conditions. This generally works in the short term, but makes things worse in the long term. I don't know if it would do the same with OCD, but possibly.

2 The benefits alcohol produces could be the bait that lures you into addiction.


Maybe in principle you could get drunk very infrequently, and if you're self aware and have self control, you'll be able to enjoy the benefits without becoming an addict. On the other hand, many, many people have become alcoholics intending at first to only drink occasionally. No one really sets out to become an alcoholic, it just happens.

Maybe you'll just get drunk occasionally, but then something will severely trigger your OCD, or you'll experience some other crisis, and because you've learned that alcohol is your best medicine, you'll turn to that. Maybe you'll tell yourself that you're going though something so severe, you just can't be bothered to care about whether you'll turn into an alcoholic, and the drinking that you're doing now would set the stage for that.

If you can find an alcohol recovery group that suits you, that might help. Not only would they have a lot of knowledge about alcoholism, they'd probably be able to monitor you to some degree and give you some valuable feedback.

There are also so many people who self-medicate with alcohol, you might be able to find some info if you search for alcohol (or alcoholism) and OCD.

My old friend who got and stayed sober for the last 30 years of his life, go off of alcohol after ending up in hospital, basically dead with internal bleeding. He was like LumberJack, once he staratred drinking he couldn't stop until He always said that if you've been thinking it's a problem for a while, then it likely is. I'm pretty sure that is what he'd say to you if he were around. The part where you said it is giving you a window give me concern. That's not a safe thing @Lisa the Goatgirl . You're a great hearted person and I'm really glad you are giving this thought. I'm encouraging you.

- s

I'm glad you replied anyway, because your post was very thoughtful, sweet and well-reasoned. Thank you for taking the time to read my post and respond.

Ouch, you're right. When you put it like that, it really doesn't sound very healthy. It sounds like i'm using alcohol as a crutch. And i think you're actually right to boil away some of the nuance, because as you correctly pointed out, i think a lot of that nuance is my mind's way of twisting the facts to support my argument it isn't a problem.

And i think your read is unfortunately very correct. I have been putting drunk Lisa on a pedestal and undermining the worth of sober Lisa by doing so. By saying drunk Lisa is better, i'm saying sober Lisa is lesser. And she doesn't have to be, she just has progress yet to make.

Reading what you're saying, it's hitting me again just how surprised i was to wake up hungover today. And i think i'm realising, i was surprised because my mind really has started to view alcohol as medicinal somehow. It's like i was shocked by the reminder that it's actually just poison we drink for kicks.

You're showing that you're smart and good at arguing a point yourself, cos you've made a very compelling case. Even though i think i got more of an idea of positive qualities i wanted to learn in a sober state, i was getting lost somewhere in there to a desire to simply be this "better" version of me however i could.These days, i'm finally starting to see what people mean when they talk about these positive qualities they see in me, but i'm still often lost in maladaptive daydreaming too.

I often fantasise about the woman i could be, and still get frustrated that i can't materialise her into my daily life either. It seems like it should be so simple, just decide who you want to be, and choose to be that person. But i just can't make it happen, and drinking changed that for a while. As everyone here is telling me, even though i may not exactly have a problem yet, i need to change course here, because i think i may have been heading straight towards a major problem the way i've been going. Maybe i don't have to stop drinking entirely, but i need to get a handle on how much i'm drinking, and how often, as well as the reasons why i'm drinking.

i wanted to chime in a tiny bit on this. Because it has been a question on my mind for a while.

Quick backstory... i am "New" to alcohol. It sounds strange... however i had a serious situation when i was 16 n should have died because i drank a really large amount of hard liquor. i was told my reactions from then on was an allergy to alcohol. Only recently have i learned it was not an allergy, but the way sugars react in my system. So... yes... i often feel like a kid learning about alcohol.

So... that question has come up within me often recently. And a good friend of mine told me not to allow it to get out of hand. So i asked this friend what was out of hand in his opinion. The answer to me was: Everyone has a different limit. When you begin to see a need, desperation, uncertainty with it, anxiety because of not having... that sort of thing, then it's out of hand.
For him it was seeing a fifth half empty, and it was Sunday, panicking that he could not get more till the next day (back when you couldn't buy alcohol or a vehicle on Sundays), that was a signal for him it was out of hand.

For me... it is hiding when n what i drink. i hide it so i don't have to deal with the disapproval. Yet, i also don't have to hide because my family rarely can see past their own nose unless it will effect them directly. i have "gotten away with" loads without anyone knowing. A blessing and also not at the same time. The other thing that signaled it was getting out of hand was that i actually considered driving once after drinking. i Always put my keys away before i drank. This one time i did not. And i would have put other's in danger even though it was only a few sips. The very thought that i may hurt someone!!! That is HUGE for me!

Any drinking, just as with anything else, the reason behind wanting to, and how you go about it, and the outcome all play a part in it. And in reality, only you can make that decision. It will be different for everyone because everyone is different... (or it would be very boring)

In a way i could actually see this making the OCD worse. When i was doing work on it in CBT, they taught me how methods to avoid or appease OCD thoughts actually lends them power. So even by dulling my mind to the point i don't have to deal with them, i'm effectively saying they should have the power to justify drinking them away. That's a good point May.

Yeah, you're right. I said it in some attempt to justify my behaviour as healthy, but it really isn't, is it? I shouldn't be using adulterants to try and put myself into some other world i can research. If i'm gonna drink, it should just be because it's pleasant in and of itself. Saying it makes a window like that is problematic.

It's interesting you say that, cos i actually didn't intend to tell anyone i'd had another drinking session so soon after the other, even though it was the reason i felt awful today. I scrapped several posts i was contemplating, complaining about being hungover, and i said nothing to my friends. I just tried to act like it hadn't happened, because i knew it'd look bad, and i was afraid of getting called out on it.

It wasn't until D posted today's GeoGrid to the group chat, saying it was a hard one, that i acknowledged being hungover, cos i wanted to explain why i didn't wanna do it today. And i really kinda hoped it'd just skate by, but A picked up on it, and questioned me about it.

It's often a warning sign to me that i'm doing the wrong thing if i feel like i need to hide it from people, A especially. So i think you're right, the fact i wanted to conceal how much i've been drinking was a red flag that it's been getting bad. I didn't want people to know i've been drinking so much, because i didn't want people to think less of me for it.

This resonates with me HUGELY! i hide quite a lot... i pretend everything is fine, ignore things, keep hidden, fix, and make excuses for soooo much. i do this because of how everything i do might "look" on others. i was taught that everything i do will reflect onto my loved ones. What i say, what i do, how i behave, how i feel, what i think, and the worst one... how well i can pretend that there is absolutely Nothing wrong.

What i have learned is the ones that matter, they will never think or feel that way. The ones that matter are the ones that care about you no matter what you do. They will be there. They wont think less of you. They will support you. Even if what you do n what you want doesn't equal their ideas. It's your life, and you have the right to live it how you please as long as you don't harm others while doing so. (others also includes you!)

The ones that matter might be there pulling out there phone to record something absolutely asinine that you have done while laughing their heads off... but they will also be the ones to help pick your ass up when you have fallen... no matter how many times you have fallen.

The ones that matter... won't think less of you because you do something they may disapprove of. They Will love you no matter what. Because we all have faults, we all have our demons, we all do asinine stuff.

What i am saying (and it's loads easier said then done i know) is to put more thought into how you should treat yourself with love and kindness rather than to worry about how others might think less of you. Don't think less of yourself. We as humans, treat ourselves harsh enough. We are our worst enemy. Try and be your friend... i think you will like who you see. We all do.

As someone who one point was convinced that he was a "alcoholic". I was both listening to bad advice at the time and dealing with a doctor who seemed to be adamant that I was.

I think intentionality is the dividing line here. Either completely lacking purpose drinking to getting absolutely sickly wasted or death wish drinking

If someone is doing either of those consistently I would strongly suggest considering a deeper issue.

If someone is able to stop and still enjoy life and smell the roses without booze they are probably fine.

I'm just basing this on my experience and others I have known who have had issues with alcohol. If you drink and can't stop, or drink solely to get drunk, you might have a problem. i have gone years without drinking, yet when I start again I tend to binge drink, in that I will drink heavily and quickly and to the point where I am very much out of it and ready to pass out. Other people I have known ended up drinking until it caused serious health problems. It sounds like you feel more...open maybe when you're drinking. And that can be fine, in moderation. But if it comes to a point where you feel like it is taking over your life or it begins to affect you negatively, then that can be a problem.

I really resonate with this too. I've been very similar for most of my life, but the pressure has been much more internally focused in a way. I was conditioned as a kid to view myself as defective goods basically. The lesson seemed to be that there were other people, "normal" people, who knew who and what i was supposed to be, so i needed to try and become who they told me i should be.

So, that's what i did. I constantly tried very hard to be exactly the person i felt anyone wanted or needed me to be. If anything within me didn't align to that, it'd get shoved down in some dark little corner somewhere. It meant i was constantly performing a facsimile of a personality, rather than ever being authentic. Who i was actually varied wildly depending on who i was talking to. I think in a way, it's ironically informed my drinking somewhat recently, because people have been saying they like this new, more outspoken and confident version of me, and i'm even more like that when i'm drunk.

And, for example, because as far as i knew nobody wanted me to be trans, i could never admit that was all going on inside me, even to myself. I'm improving on this issue overall, but i still have some rougher edges i feel compelled to try and put in the dark corner where nobody will see them. It's taking a lot of time and work to undo the conditioning inflicted on me growing up, cos that stuff gets its claws in deep.

Yeah, that right there is exactly why i consider A to be such a good friend. He's seen some of the ugliest bits of me on numerous occasions, and yet he continues to stand by me and respond with compassion and understanding. He always encourages me to do what i need to be healthy, whatever that is and regardless of what anyone else thinks. It's why he has the power to make me stop and seriously examine my behaviour, just by questioning me over it. I know if he's calling me out over something, it's because he has my best interests at heart.

And it's also why i love this place and all of you wonderful people in it. I can be the ugly, messy, chaotic version of me here, and people here actually get it. They still see me, and they treat me with kindness. Before A and this place, i wasn't used to getting much of that kindness and understanding. I can still have trouble trusting it, but the more everyone proves they can actually understand, the easier it gets. I'm like a spicy feral cat learning how to be domesticated.

I think that very much has been why yesterday was a real wakeup call for me. I was looking at myself the way A does, and it got me to recognise my behaviour didn't make me a worse person, but it was concerning and i needed to address it. It gave me the push and the courage to open up about it here, and i've found talking about it openly has really helped open my eyes, and likely saved me and the people who care about me a great deal of heartache in the future.

Yeah, i think that's another very key point to hit. My intent when drinking in the past was never to get drunk. I just felt like drinking some amount and letting it do whatever it would. But lately, there has been a mentality of "if i don't get drunk enough, what's the point." I've lost the interest in the drinking itself, which used to be my main motivator.

And i think it's telling that the moment i started to feel better from my hangover, something inside me started asking "so, when can we do that again?" It feels like i can stop and still enjoy life without drink right now, it'll just take some willpower and conscious effort, but i'm realising it might not have been that way in another few months, or a year or two. I was going down a bad road for a bit there.

Yeah, i think that's what i have to keep an eye on. I'd started to lapse into this mentality of "i have to drink x amount to promote growth or to be a better person", and that's really dangerous. It was becoming more about the drink controlling me and determining my self-worth than actually enjoying myself.

Thanks for chipping in Witty. I know it's a difficult topic for anyone with their own history of problematic drinking, so it's good of you to engage to give your insight.

That's good. I didn't do any of this. I thought "wow this makes life less boring and I'm able tolerate my stress"

I didn't realize I was basically death wish drinking.
Once I started trying to meet my mental health needs on its own terms I found it very difficult to drink to the excesses that I had. Hell the hangovers even felt worse. I'm a work in progress. The problem drinking element was the lack of self awareness in my mind.