Gender: Men and suicide

Hello

I don't know if this is something I am allowed to post here but was not sure where else to post it and thought it of huge relevance to discuss.

Men are more likely than women to complete suicide and are less likely than women to ask for professional help. Should we as a forum be doing more to target men/supporting men and what do people feel men need?

I do not know any way to target people that just naturally by gender bias in upbringing are reluctant to get help or respond. If you have ideas though I am happy to listen.

We had a related thread a while back : (link) men and suicide
I agree it's a major concern. In the UK there's an organization named CALM, the Campaign Against Living Miserably which is challenging the cultural stereotypes which prevent men from speaking out: https://www.thecalmzone.net/about-calm/what-is-calm/

Helpline (men only) 0800 58 58 58

Fellas, it's a tough one out there. If we feel worthless, or flirt internally with suicidal thoughts -- we instinctively clam up. I myself have never seriously tried killing myself.

I have however grown accustomed to living with anxiety without medication (never believed in it.) It is a burden to be this aware.

Men have always had higher rates of suicide, but it's gotten worse in recent years.

Frankly, I think all of the rhetoric about about male privilege, among other things, is making things worse. I saw a therapist once who told me straight up that women had not only a right, but a duty to attack me because of my male privilege. That's insane! US culture has become saturated with rhetoric that scapegoats men for everything.

So I'm not sure what SF could do to address the issue...maybe a men's forum?

I would not be opposed, but the fact there may be a need for a "men's forum" then makes the rhetoric into a reality where is something "just for the men", and all the associated bs of "like they don't already have every advantage to start with" crap.

Bottom line, it is not socially acceptable to pick on or bully any type of minority or smaller group, but it is absolutely okay and even encouraged to bully the "majority or anybody that is "larger" or bigger. People have been taught for last decade or two that they have no blame or personal responsibility for anything that was difficult or went wrong- since they "can be anything they want when they grow up" and "do anything they set their mind to", instead of admitting that is complete bs, things like talent, work ethic, natural ability, as well as to a smaller extent where starting from socially, and personal/family resources really dictate what you can be or do it is now the socially acceptable thing to blame another group for anything you wanted that did not happen for you (regardless of your own talent, ability, dedication and effort) and the only socially acceptable group to blame without being a racist, sexist, homophobic, etc etc is the large white male group. Can't be called out for picking on the biggest group after all.

So poor all the blame on them , not the crap platitudes they started teaching as "truths" in the 90's that gave birth to a sense of both entitlement and intense disappointment when adulthood arrives and you find it really is not the way it works at all, so there has to be somebody to blame. So if in that "blamed category, not only are all telling you all their problems are your fault, but all are telling you that you had it easy and if you are not successful and everything you wanted to be then clearly it is your own fault completely because it was all easy for you.... Yes, I would agree 100% @may71 - this attitude is in fact causing a lot of the issues that can be measured directly in suicide numbers, mental health numbers, etc (and require no explanations of why the numbers say this but it is not really true because.... like many of the "facts" spouted by the small numbers but very loud talking radical haters groups and propagated by the media and education systems in trying to make things "fair" and prove how politically correct and compassionate they are.

Sorry for mini rant- is a sore topic for many - I guess i think all can have breaks, and all can have very hard time. All have a responsibility for their own actions, and at same time all have things happen that are out of their own control no matter what you do. Percentages mean nothing to me, because we are not a percentage of 1.8 million- we are all individuals, and whether 17% more or less of individuals like us do better or worse, it has no bearing on our life as an individual. Statistics are fine for trying to track and make sure that social justice and equality continues to advance- and anybody that does not know that it has come a million miles in the last 50 years is uneducated, inexperienced/young, or all of those. But in real world it is what happens to the individual, and in the real world no individual has a 17% higher income, or whatever you are measuring, they have an income- higher or lower-period (or whatever statistic). As individuals we are all at the mercy of our own abilities, frailties, and just bad luck or timing sometimes. Treating individuals as a whole class of people and pretending they each individually have responsibility, blame, or benefit is just stupidity. We are individuals, not averages and statistics.

If the world looked at all as individuals and treated all as individuals, and was genuinely blind to race, religion, sex, sexual orientation , etc etc then the people that needed help would get it., The people to blame for injustice could be brought to justice, and all would have a fair chance based upon their personal abilities and desires and effort to accomplish as much as possible for them as individuals, and when something happened outside of their control that put them at a disadvantage they could be offered help and assistance to remedy it, as a individual person that deserves care and compassion and help like we all need on occasion. Still a LONG way from that though I think.

Its not just US culture, its a global movement. Male privilege doesn't exist.

I am not sure that having a men's only forum is going to be beneficial or achieve a lot. As always, if you target men only, then women will feel that it's only fair that they have their own dedicated forum. I'm not sure having multiple forums is going to achieve much in the long term.

Though I am in complete agreement and sceptical that male privilege exists. Sure, there are still some slight inequalities in some work places, at least in the UK between men and women, particularly in small businesses. Women do struggle in these areas, as small businesses cannot always fully accommodate things like maternity leave and pay, because it means they lose out on money and in this current financial climate, they are already struggling to stay afloat financially. But for the most part, men and women appear to be pretty equal in the UK. There are some places in the world where women are treated very poorly and unfairly, but these tend to be in 3rd world countries.

It's all well and good these modern feminists harping on about women's rights etc. but I am quite unsure what it is they are trying to achieve or what point they are trying to make. Yes, in past years women have had a rough ride when it comes to being treated as equals to men but that doesn't really seem to be much of an issues these days. It's all well and good raising the game for women, but these feminists also forget that there are still certain expectations of men. Men are still expected to be providers, to be successful, to raise and head a family, be mentally strong etc. We still live in an age where these expectations of men still exist and if they don't succeed as they feel they should, then they feel pretty emasculated and feel like they are failures. If they are emotional, they feel weak. If women really want equality for all, then we should also be tackling the common myth that men have to be successful and strong.

I am a nurse, which is a very female dominated profession and I can tell you that men definitely have a rough time. Some of my female colleagues disagree and feel they get an easy time, and that men don't have to work as hard to climb the ladder but I disagree. There are definitely more female nurse managers than there are men in nursing.

All my opinion of course, but a gender divided forum just isn't going to work. It would require more mod and admin time than the benefits gained.
Who is going to vet the gender of posters? Which bathroom will trans and/or genderfluid folk use? How much advice is gender specific, and how much beneficial advice will be locked away by an honour system of secret gender business?

I also don't think men in general want only male advice, or need a gender only safe space though I can only speak for myself. A place where they can talk and not be ridiculed/mocked/etc for sure, but that's something everyone has here.

I do think the rate of male suicide is a huge issue, as is the unacknowledged mental illness. Particularly so called female things like eating disorders but that's a rant for another time. At the least, a sticky thread of gender specific resources somewhere would be gone, but the important thing is the way everyone posting here is treated as an individual worthy of respect, not a demographic.

The anonymous nature of this forum is what brings us together and makes it more open for anyone.

However this is a real problem that is not spoken about in many cultures, even in my family when a cousin of my father killed himself last December there is still nothing mentioned about it in the family.

Someone does need to write an article about it and hopefully reach out to more guys in their hour of need when they are at their lowest and not become a statistic would that be a start?

An article would certainly be a start and something that may help. Good idea.

I have to do a member spotlight in next couple days then can make that the next one unless is a volunteer wanting to write it ?

I've been posting here for awhile and I've never felt a need to post in a male oriented sub forum. Even if one existed I probably wouldn't post much there. I'm just a human person trying to communicate with other humans. It's probably a very good thing for many of the guys here, who often might not have had a lot of contact with women, to be exposed to their viewpoints, especially on the very personal and emotional subject matter that gets discussed here. Chances are that they'll hear/read things they never would have if they were only talking to other men.

There's already a LGBT+ forum here, and there doesn't seem to be any vetting/exclusion issue or hidden beneficial advice issue. LGBT+ folks are free to post there, as well as well as elsewhere on the forums, and no one is excluded from viewing or posting on the LGBT+ forum (as far as I know).

There are still some valid objections...additional admin/mod resources, possible low usage rates...but the same problems exist for LGBT+

Life is the most valuable. It is given once.